(in response to a post at http://www.youseedrybones.com/ blog title
Isn't it fun to be able to discuss, learn, and grow together as "the church" the ekklesia :)
I disagree, I don't think that anyone should go and be a part of A church. I think they should LIVE LIFE AS THE CHURCH! i think the reason that no one has found the right church is because people don't know what the church is all about. Church is not a program, a place, a service, a ministry, a doctrine, etc. I do not like the church as an institution, but I LOVE the church, as being G-Ds people...the kingdom of G-D. Church in scripture...being the ekklesia is defined as being a gathering of G-Ds people. We are called to live as disciples of Jesus and as the church...to love G-D and Love others…that simple! I also agree with Jack Cottrell on the unity point (and I do not always have friendly words to say about this man's doctrine)but, we as G-Ds people...as the kingdom of G-D do need to be unified as the church because I don't think we look overly pretty the way we live as the church right now. We live divided…”this is my church, that is your church”…well Paul says things about this type of division as well…and they are not pretty words either. We as the church have one mission “God has a plan, and his son has a mission. Join it” (don)…don’t join a church’s mission, join G-Ds! Also, how much more powerfully could we live as the ekklesia, the church, if we live in unity as G-Ds people…I have learned a lot about the church...the ekklesia...and we are freakin awesome
Is it wrong to attend church? NO. Is it is wrong to go to church? No. Is it wrong to attend a service and have no relationships with anyone else? Yes! Why? Because church is all about Loving G-D and Loving others. That is it. Church is a gathering of G-Ds people for the purpose of worshiping G-D. And worship is not just singing a few songs. Church is a community of G-Ds people. So if you want to attend a service, or jump into a radical program, jump into a ministry, or are looking for a hip church to go to. Don’t. Gather together with a community of people that passionately love Jesus, and live life as the church. Use your imagination and serve G-D together, or come up with ideas on how you can radically Love the people you work with, or the poor, or the widows, or the bum on the street. That’s ministry, that’s evangelism, that’s life as the church.
Can we live passionately and radically live for Jesus without going to A church...HECK YA! Why, cause people aren’t supposed to go to church, they are supposed to live life as the church!!! there are disciples of Jesus everywhere...all we need is a community of people that Love Jesus, but it can be any size and number and then look around because we got other peeps all over the place…and maybe we will see unity as we live passionately and radically with those peeps as well.
2 comments:
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Christians are supposed to be in church. There are no ifs ands or buts about it. In 1 Cor. 14:33, Paul addresses the people in the Church. Timothy (mostly the first letter) and Titus concern the people being in church, or congregating together.
The word you have used, ekklesia, actually means "a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (as used for the Jewish Synagogue or Christian community) assembly or church."
If we want to take it at a bear minimum, just living life together, how do we apply the rules of elders and deacons? What about the rules on tithe? Why are there structure rules in the Bible about how we should come together and worship. Granted, some come to us out of First Corinthians, and we can make a contextual case out of them. But the context is, they had no rules or disobeyed rules, did their own thing, and now they had to go back to some basics.
I can contextualize anything. I can make premarital sex ok in context. I can make permissible stealing contextual. I can make acceptable adultery contextual. Paul told me "all things are permissible, just not good for me. Over eating is permissible, but not good for me, but I can live with that. Cheating on your spouse, its not good for me, but it is permissible (NOTE: I AM USING SARCASM, IF YOU READ THIS AND ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN, THESE THINGS ARE NOT PERMISSIBLE!) Peta has used the Bible to make vegetarianism mandatory.
A second note on Corinthians. If we are to void out the instructions to the church of Corinth, do we also void out the lessons on spiritual gifts? The lessons on marriage? The lessons on Lawsuits? At what point do we draw the line? If this is the case, do I stop reading the book of Corinthians unless I am part of an unruly church?
The church is not vile to God. It never has been. Even in the state it is in. It is imperfect. By separating ourselves, and telling the people who are a part of the church they should not be there, can cause more division in an already divided church. It now takes another group out of the church and creates a subculture that someday will be frowned upon by radical people and rebelled against.
I do see how the church is going through a second reformation. People are learning how rules and regulations of old are tiring and not needed. We have learned rock music and tattoos do not send one to hell. But we also have learned we need to unite. I think Church unity is up more than down. So many churches are working together how they never did before (4 corners, Northstar, VCC, and others all hold events to get together with other churches ). It is only the older generation and some of the young who think a denomination saves you.
We know from 1 Corinthians chapter 3 this is not the case. We know Jesus saves you, not Baptists or the Church of Christ.
We also know Jesus provides different missions to different people. Some have to serve the poor in Africa, others have to serve the dying in Calcutta. Some have to teach the rich, and yet others have to teach the homeless. We are all different body parts. Some of us belong at Saddle Back or Willow Creek, and others belong in a house church. One man may end up starting a prison fellowship from the inside, while another may sing worship songs to the underground church in Asia.
The point is this. Join a mission of a Bible believing, worshiping Christ, Jesus followers church. If they are doing the above things, then their mission is God's mission. If they are not, do not be afraid to speak up to the pastor, and start praying for the Church.
To tell someone to not join a church is not a good idea. I know many people who are happy in the church, who do amazing things in the church (Mark Lutz, Rick Warren, Rob Bell, Mark Driscoll, Billy Grahm, Martin Luther King J.R., Jim Holland, Dave Workman, Greg Hodges, Karen Many, Rusty Gevhert and many more). People are supposed to go to church (ekklesia, or gatherings) and the gatherings have rules and a structure. But it is within those gatherings that people are equipped, strengthened, encourages, healed, and on and on.
This stuff happens outside the gatherings as well, and what happens outside is important. But what happens inside is a boost toward sanctification. It is a safe place to learn and grow. You may do this in a group of 5 or 500, but it is still a group. It is still, by definition, a church (lower case 'c').
I would be worried to down the American church. It is the bride of Christ, even if it meets in multi-million dollar buildings. It may do some things wrong. Some churches may be heretical and need to be closed. But so many other churches do great things and should be sought out and attended.
I love the Church. I see why God loves it. You have been burned and worn down by the church. You see what God is doing outside of it. You see what people can do when they want to use what they have learned in the Church to spread the kingdom. You get evangelism in a way I never will.
But we are on the same team, and we are both doing what God asked. But we both need to understand the church is not bad or not worth joining, or not useful. Contrary to what you have said, you are supposed to be in church, it is biblical.
Being outside the church is not bad. Doing "life as the church" is not bad. Being an evangelist is not bad. It is commanded. But if I were to look at it as bad or unneeded, I would be wrong. And I will not do that. I think, and please do not take this the wrong way, that it would be prideful on my part. I know you pray, and I know God tells you what you need to do and what He wants your heart to be. But I know Dave Workman prays, and I know he listens to God, and I know where God has his heart. It is in a 6000 member mega-church. For me to tell a man building a church in a traditional sense that he is not doing part of God's plan is prideful, a dangerous sin. This is a sin that got Satan booted from heaven.
We have to understand we are all parts of the body, and none of them are perfect. They will not be. I think the perfect comes (as in Corinthians again) and then we will be restored. But we need to be on the same team and undivided. Its like Football. The Bengals hate the Browns on the field, but off the field, they know the both represent the NFL. They hold to the rules (well, we know a lot of the Bengals do not...) and they report to their jobs. But Chad Johnson is not wrong for joining Cincinnati, and Mike Vick is not wrong for joining the Falcons. He is wrong for dog fighting...Thats another story. Does this make sense?
I hope this makes sense. My main point is we are all imperfect. We are all called to different things. We are all trying to do God's will. If we had his plan for the Church figured out, we would not need God to help us, and we would do it. I do not want to be a person who does not need God in any aspect of his life. I am having a hard enough time giving over aspects to him, I should not be taking any away.
This is too long.I will submit it now.
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